From the May 15 edition of CRTV's Get Off My Lawn:
GAVIN MCINNES (HOST): OK, well we got two arguments going on here.
MELANIE NOTKIN: Yeah.
MCINNES: So let's settle the first one. Totally -- nothing to do with work. How many -- what percentage of women want kids? And a lot of them say they don't want kids and then regret it when they're 40, so I'm asking you, what percentage of women deep down, despite what they say, biologically, want children?
NOTKIN: About 90 percent.
MCINNES: 90 percent, OK, so we're only off five percent. Now, this is where we get controversial and likely split. I, and very few people agree with me on this, I don't think 95 percent of women thrive in the workforce because the workforce is a confrontational and rough place where insults -- like, the way men talk to each other is insulting. And I don't think work should be fun. Work shouldn't be pleasant. You're trying to build something, you know. You're building a wall, you get scratched by the bricks and stuff. And then you can relax at break time. But women, they want a jovial, kind, safe space, and that's not conducive to productive work.
NOTKIN: I don't know that all women want that. I think that that's, again, part of this narrative that you were referring to earlier, for instance, there are now co-workspaces that are women only, you can't even have a male guest. I think that women create this pretense of -- that somehow being around other women is safer. I've worked in departments with only women. I would've loved to have had some men in that department.
MCINNES: Oh, good point.
NOTKIN: I think there's this fallacy that women are angels and men are, you know, this toxic group of humans. So I don't know that that's -- that women can't take it, and I think that the women who aren't complaining are the ones who can take it, and if anything, if I've ever bemoaned the workplace -- now I've worked in corporate America for some pretty large firms -- it was the toxicity, which is the word of nowadays, of women gossiping about women and, by the way, it was women who weren't helping elevate other women, it's a lot of women in HR --
MCINNES: Well, they can be real bitches.
NOTKIN: And look, I'm not saying that all men are angels. But, I think that, you know, as many women are --
MCINNES: Here's an example because I don't like this “some people are like that, some people like that.” I want to get down to the nitty-gritty. And I'm thinking of Gretchen Carlson. She got $20 million because Roger Ailes made inappropriate comments. I've worked in New York City for a quarter century or, sorry, for 20 years and gays are constantly making inappropriate comments. Gays, that are above us, gays that are clients that we're trying to get, and we just go, “yeah dude, I'm not performing fellatio for this contract.” And you laugh it off and you get a beer with the guy after. You know what I mean? It's a rough and tumble atmosphere.
NOTKIN: Well, look, so, there are shades of gray with everything, there's -- I don't know, frankly, I don't -- it's all noise to me, so I don't know the details of her complaint and why she got that level of retribution. There's a difference between -- if a male boss or even a female boss says, “if you have sex with me, or you become my mistress then you can stay in this job and I'll give you everything you want.” That's one thing.
MCINNES: Yeah. Quid pro quo.
NOTKIN: Yeah. And hey, a lot of women in the 50s and 60s did it.
MCINNES: Oh, they still do. Look at Harvey Weinstein, look at how many people said, “OK, I will do that for this job.” But what I'm getting to here is kind of an ethereal, trippy concept. We maybe should've smoked a joint first. But my point is, isn't the fact that these women are complaining, obviously, these men are pigs, but isn't it kind of proof that women don't belong in the workforce? Like, say, you had women in the NFL --
MCINNES: -- and there are constantly dealing with broken bones and stuff and we say, “we need to be gentler in football.” Or maybe, women don't belong in the NFL in the first place.
NOTKIN: But they're not in the NFL.
MCINNES: Right, but they're in the workforce, and they keep suing and going to HR and complaining. You don't hear men going to HR about being sexually harassed.
NOTKIN: Maybe they go to HR wishing they were. I don't know, Gavin, I mean I just -- Look, this is not my -- thankfully, I have never been sexually harassed. Sure, men have said silly things to me, I have no doubt --
MCINNES: Well, if you sleep with me I'll make you look a lot better in this interview, in editing.
NOTKIN: Oh, sweetie. I just -- I think this is working. This is 49.
MCINNES: I'm into brunettes.
NOTKIN: I'm good.