On MSNBC’s Deadline: White House, Angelo Carusone discusses the reactions of Ted Cruz and Joe Rogan to the free speech threats of the administration
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From the September 23, 2025, edition of MSNBC's Deadline: White House
NICOLLE WALLACE (HOST): Angelo, I came in with Joe Rogan because I do think that one of the only friction points for the Trump White House is its own coalition. Megyn Kelly came out and attacked Donald Trump for his plans to roll into Chicago, said she would side with JB Pritzker. And, again, I don't know if that's causal, but he hasn't rolled the military into Chicago. There's aggressive ICE activity there.
I wonder what you make of two things. One, I know that a lot of what Brendan Carr is doing is stuff that you previewed for me and for our viewers because it's written down in the pages of Project 2025. But Ted Cruz and Joe Rogan seem truly shocked by this. Explain that dynamic.
ANGELO CARUSONE (MEDIA MATTERS PRESIDENT): Yeah. I mean, look, they're -- it's important to note a few things. One, as you noted, they seem surprised, surprised enough that they were willing to say something and felt like they needed to say something. And that's because, you know, for Rogan and for Cruz too, this is what they've been saying for a while: free speech. Right? And it's hard to -- it's worth keeping in mind that Ted Cruz is not only a political figure. He himself is also a podcaster and, you know, has a show that he does. And a part of it is this is a theme and a narrative that goes through both of their programs. So what they were doing was planting a flag around free speech.
What I think is really notable, though, about each of their appeals is that if you look at what they both said, yeah, they said, "Hey, this is not a good thing." But the focus of their argument was actually designed to, as best as possible, to reduce as much blowback as they would get from their audiences or potential Trump supporters and try to persuade. And by that, I mean, think what they were saying. They didn't say, "This is wrong, and we should never do this." They didn't try to appeal to some higher ideal about free speech principles. Yeah, they said it's bad and shouldn't do it.
But the thrust of their argument was, "It's going to come back and get you, and that's why you should oppose it." What they were trying to do wasn't just to plant the flag, but to move as much of Trump's people or the people that are supporting this as possible. And that's the real key here, because they're not just saying something to say it. They're trying to operationalize that idea.
The concern I have a little bit, although I wish they did more, was that -- and this is where it gets into the larger Carr stuff and the Project 2025 stuff -- is that this fight isn't over. I mean, Nexstar today, as you noted, you know, isn't going to broadcast these things. And that's really what the FCC had leverage over from the beginning because they themselves are trying to do a merger that's going to require FCC approval. And so they're going to try to stay in Carr's good graces.
And in a way, they are now going to become a tool and an instrument of the FCC, of the Trump administration. So that's the thing that I don't know that Rogan and others are going to continue to push on, and that's where the narrative comes in. We really have to make sure that that doesn't get lost here, that those entities are still in many respects functioning as avatars for the administration's free speech crackdown.