On Deadline: White House, Angelo Carusone discusses the Epstein scandal: Trump may have gotten MAGA media figures to go quiet, but Americans know there’s something suspicious here
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From the September 9, 2025, edition of MSNBC's Deadline: White House
NICOLLE WALLACE (HOST): Angelo, you taught me this term narrative dominance, which I've been obsessed with ever since you introduced it into my brain waves. 81% of Americans think Donald Trump is hiding something when it comes to the Epstein files. You don't even have to be tracking this story carefully or listening to Joe Rogan or consuming sort of conspiracy-adjacent content to think that Donald Trump is involved in a massive coverup. And so The Wall Street Journal's trailblazing on this story and the subsequent defamation suit, which to me now seems totally moot. The book is out, Republicans and Democrats can hold it and touch it and see it.
It seems to fuel the thing that 81% of Americans now believe in their bones that "Donald Trump is covering up something about the Epstein files." There will be other fights, there will be other battles, and maybe even the war that he'll win, but this battle has been waged for public opinion. It's month seven, Kash Patel's the source on Joe Rogan telling us about gigabytes of information, saying, "House Republicans put on your big boy pants and tell us who the pedophiles are." The questions were asked by the MAGA Republicans, and now 81% of Americans believe those same MAGA Republicans, including Donald Trump, are hiding the answers.
ANGELO CARUSONE (GUEST): Yeah, I mean and I think that's it. I mean, ultimately it's the narrative, it's the story. These little side threads that come up, the day-to-day details, often times that gets lost on people. And that's okay. I mean, ultimately what you remember is sort of the big picture, the big arc, you know, the story. And the story seems to track with what people already have an intuitive sense of, believe. I mean, you know, it's not like these things happen in a vacuum either. I mean, the Catholic Church sex scandal, you know, simmered and brewed for a while, was described as an open secret for so long. And finally, one day, it changed.
And people are aware of these things. There is this perception and feeling that people in power do bad things, they get away with it, and other people in power help them get away with it and cover it up. And that is a story that is deeply American and not just unique to us. It's part of history. It aligns with people's understanding. And so the moment we're in right now is sort of this weird quantum state because, you know, when Trump describes it as a dead issue and I love John's description is sort of like semi-alive. In some ways, he's not wrong. It is still simmering, the embers are still there.
He has successfully brought a whole bunch of people to heel, people like Laura Loomer and, you know, who are out there for weeks and months even after this initially broke have gone quiet. They're radio silent on this. They've said the ends justify the means. I will participate or I will help enable all of this sexual misconduct, all of this sexual abuse because it's for the greater good for Donald Trump. They've gotten in line. Laura Ingraham, Fox News, they've gotten in line. They've stopped talking about it. But as you note, it's already baked in. Americans care about this, they think there's something fishy and suspicious here, and they think it's about Trump.
So, to me then it's a question of so what? What does that mean in terms of politics? And this is where I think there has to be a little bit of a shift. It can't only ever be about Donald Trump because, you know, there will be people that say I really care about this, but I care more about Donald Trump, just like all those right-wing influencers. But a story about House Republicans and Republican-elected leaders engaging in a massive cover-up for sexual abusers and ignoring Trump -- it'll come back around, it'll boomerang back to him -- but ultimately, in order to propel this story, more individual threads like this have to come out.