GONZALO LIRA (HOST): But anyway, you were saying about China, the future is China and how do they see it?
JAMES LINDSAY (GUEST): The Chinese. I mean, they –
LIRA: No, the cabal for the West – what do we call this [UNINTELLIGIBLE] by the way?
LINDSAY: I usually just call them the World Economic Forum or the regime with a capital R. Umm, the – I'm not entirely sure, honestly, they partner with it, but I honestly feel like it's and I think both people both know this.
LIRA: Sorry, I forgot. The original question was what happens in twenty, thirty years? And you said, if the – if the regime wins or the regime loses. And you were – you were explaining if the regime wins, we just eat bugs and living in the pod. But what happens with the other big poles of China, Russia, and potentially India?
LINDSAY: If the regime wins?
LINDSAY: Probably East Asia and Oceania have always been at war, more or less. You have these two, two heavily socially controlled – Russia's, the wild card. I don't know how to how to work that in because they're not about to have pods and bugs. Not at all. And they have the resources available if they have to retreat to everybody farming for themselves to prevent that from happening and the military to protect them. And so they become a wild card on that table. So I can't answer with regard to that. But I think that what will happen is this kind of if the regime wins, we're going to see a long-term frenemy dispute between the Chinese CCP-driven model and the Western kind of ESG or sustainable development or whatever they call it, kind of mirror image of that. And there will be this sort of frenemy thing where we pretend that we're at peace and that we're collaborating. But power is being brokered back and forth while both systems are kind of being pulled into a single direction, which would freak out George Soros and is, for example.
LIRA: And if the regime wins, the people of the West will be peons – serfs. Is that accurate?
LINDSAY: Yes, absolutely. The people of the West have a lot of paying back for the past couple of centuries, according to the logic that's happening within this, but not the multinational overlord of corporations, because they've been in it for everybody, meaning themselves for a long time. So but the average people of the West, the average people of North America and Europe in particular, probably also South America will be you know, Australia will be irrelevant. Irrelevant would be a very kind word to how – we're debtors. We owe the world for all of the damage and colonialism and et cetera that we've foisted upon them according to the logic of both regimes, China and the World Economic Forum woke monstrosity.
We are the virus as a matter of fact, is the prevailing mentality, not necessarily humanity, but Western civilization, which also has to be ended. You stupid peons with you thinking you have rights. Are you ridiculous? That's how we get problems as people doing random shit because they're not under our control. Look at all the problems it's caused, so we're not going to do that anymore. You owe us reparations and back pay. And that's I mean, if you read anything, the climate justice, the environmental justice, the health stuff, they all say the same thing.
LIRA: I hate it.
LINDSAY: That basically the West owes the rest of the world for all the damage that it did over the past 2 to 3 centuries.
LIRA: You know, I'm one of the little brown people from South America. And I don't think that the you know, that that the Americans or the Europeans owe me shit. But, you know, I mean, they're going to –
LIRA: Well, what happens if the regime loses?
LINDSAY: Well, if the regime loses, there's going to be an awful lot of reorganization of what's happening in the West, first of all. And like I said, I do agree with you that there probably be at least a three-fold system at that point. And whatever the China-Russia alliance looks like may make it more like a twofold system. The U.S. is probably also going to retreat into being maybe not wholly within itself, but the kind of Western world into being more self-sufficient, less dependent on large multinational – Now, I don't think we're going to outsource most of our production to China in the future for much longer. If the regime loses, we're going to back off and say that's how they got us. And so we're going to not do that. And what that does in terms of quality of life, cost of living, etc. in the US is an open question. What that does with China and Russia being able to do and you know, trade warfare is an open question or whether this leads to something where – I mean. Xi and the CCP do not have benevolent intentions. They have very ambitious intentions that benefit themselves. But the other major ambitious – control-driven
LIRA: There's a difference. I have to point out something.
LIRA: The big difference between Xi and the Communist Party and Putin and the Kremlin in Russia from the regime in the West. So the – Most observers can attest to this that in Xi Xinping and the CPC, they truly care about the Chinese people and want their betterment. One can question their motivation if it's out of fear or a true altruistic desire to elevate their people. But they identify with their people. They view them as their people, and that they emerged from them, that they are held aloft by their people. That is in China and Putin and the Kremlin, you have to keep in mind that during the nineties, the early mid-nineties, Putin had to work as a taxi driver because he even though he was part of the KGB, later FSB, he wasn't being paid enough to survive. The nineties were catastrophic for the Russians and the current crop of leadership in the Kremlin and and the echelons below, they also have the sense that they come from the Russian people, that they are Russian and they are extraordinarily careful here in this invasion, and they have been careful from the start, of not harming the Ukrainians here, because, you see, they don't view them as Ukrainian. They see them as Russian. And they have no intention of hurting them. The – the Zelensky regime forces, the armed forces of Ukraine, oh, yeah, they're going to destroy them. But the civilian population, that's why whenever I hear abuses that the Russians have committed abuses against the population in the Donbas or – What are you talking about? It would be like, for instance, the United States is suppose hypothetically that I don't know, Florida was taken over by a foreign country and the United States invaded Florida with the intention of bringing it back into the fold of America. Do you think that the American Army would go around committing atrocities against Floridians? No, because they view them as Americans. You see my point?
LINDSAY: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
LIRA: And so the leadership in both China and Russia, they view their people as where they came from. And you could argue that there are individual members of the leadership classes in the Kremlin and in China and in the oligarchs of Russia, which Putin, by the way, they never mentioned this, but Putin has really cracked down on them in a way that the West kind of like is stuck in the old mentality of the nineties. But the leadership in these two countries, they feel that they are supported by and owe the people below them their best efforts in the West that the regime doesn't give a shit about the people.
LINDSAY: Yes, I was going to say that that's very eye-opening to the fundamental difference. The regime in the United States has gone, in a sense, super-national and no longer gives a rat's ass about the people of Western nations. In fact, they have nothing but contempt for the Western nations, actually.
LIRA: Exactly. So, you know, no leadership class that has become so divorced from the people can long endure. This is what happens to every aristocracy, the Habsburgs, you know, all of them. They all fail when they forget where they came from and they came from the people. That seems to me the problem with the – with the regime. And that's why my thinking is that there will come a point where the people realize these putative leaders of ours don't represent us. They don't come from us. They hate us. They look at us with contempt. Fuck them. Let's bring some rope and find the nearest lamppost.
LINDSAY: I – I kind of see the same vision. I actually call that, you know, we talk about there's the red pills, the white pills, the black pill, there's all these pills, I call that being lead-pilled.
LIRA: I don't want to keep you anymore, man. We've been only two and a half hours. It's been a lot of fun. I hope you enjoyed it.
LINDSAY: Yeah, it was a great conversation.
LIRA: Yeah, it's a very enjoyable.