KARA MCKINNEY (HOST): I should make it clear that Dave [Rubin] is a friend of this show as well, so this is not a nasty attack on him, but one of compassion, for his soul and for others. He and his “husband” under the law are now expecting babies who were conceived through the help of an egg donor, and now two separate women if I understand things correctly, are each carrying through surrogacy one of the men's children. One who is biologically Dave's, and the other who is biologically the other Dave's. Yes, they are both named David. Sadly, the announcement the babies are due in August and October of this year, respectively, received an outpouring of support from conservatives like those at PragerU and The Blaze. The same people who are upset that Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg, did something very similar.
For those of you who think I'm just kicking up controversy for no reason, or that I should just be quiet and be happy for the Daves, because at least they aren't as crazy as those lefties who do the exact same thing. But like the Buttigiegs, then allow me to explain with the help of Declan Leary, the associate editor at The American Conservative, who wrote an excellent piece about this titled "No Allies Who Buy Babies." Thanks for being here tonight, Declan.
MCKINNEY: First, that title is bound to get you in trouble with some people. Tell us why you're so passionate in arguing no allies who buy babies.
DECLAN LEARY (THE AMERICAN CONSERVATIVE): I think this is tied into the paramount issue on the American right or the conservative movement, which is the sanctity of life. And of course, you were just talking about that with respect to CPAC and Matt Schlapp. You know, there are things on which we can compromise. There are things in which we need to have a little flexibility in order to get more allies and to build a winning electoral coalition. We can compromise with people over tax rates. We can compromise on trade policy. We cannot compromise over the sanctity of human life, and the commodification and certainly the slaughter of unborn children. And regardless of whether Dave Rubin is friendly to us on trans issues or racial issues and CRT, we have to stand strong and say that if he's going to be in the party, he has to toe the line on the most important of issues.
MCKINNEY: Well, that's exactly right, because if this was a report about, you know, some lefty like the Buttigiegs, for example, as we were talking about earlier, I would do the same thing. I would talk about it on the show and explain why it's wrong. So I shouldn't hold back when it's someone who is, quote unquote, said to be our side, because this really does have some deep ramifications, as you were explaining. So in your article, you talk about -- you cite Dave and talking about how they went about finding an egg donor who will be the biological mother of their children, who it seems like these children will never get to know. Talk to us about what he -- he kind of explained it like Tinder dating, almost like an app where you just have -- like Mitt Romney, they used to make fun of him in 2012. The binders full of women? Basically it’s just binders full of women. You pick someone, he said, that looked pretty or looked smart, he said. And then you picked that to be the mother of your child that your child will never know. Explain to us some of that.
LEARY: Yes. So Dave Rubin went into great detail about this on a video posted to YouTube last week that, like you said, it was basically like Tinder. He was swiping through sites on the internet to pick a woman who he liked her appearance, her educational background and other factors, and to buy eggs from her. And then after the purchase of the eggs, they went through a similar process to get surrogates who would then carry the children for nine months. And of course, like you said, the children will then be deprived of the actual experience of the motherhood of either the biological mother or the surrogate mother, and will instead be raised by Dave and his partner, Dave.
MCKINNEY: And the way I've heard this explained before because again, I just want to reemphasize, you know, that Dave is someone that I hope he -- that this doesn't come across as being, you know, horrible and nasty and vile because I get those attacks on the right too, from some. People who are more lefty than right, but you know what I mean. And so I don't want this to come off the wrong way. And I understand his impulse for wanting to be a father. Of course, that is a good and moral and virtuous want, but that doesn't mean that you can use bad means, evil means, in fact, to achieve those ends.
The way I've heard it explained before, for example, is in China. A lot of men in rural areas have hard times finding wives because of decades of the one-child policy, where many girls were aborted in the womb so that their parents could try again for a boy. So it leaves a lot of men not having wives. And so, unfortunately, in some of those areas, especially ones that also border other poor nations, you see wife kidnapping, where some of these men will go and kidnap other men's wives and the farms, or they'll go across the border into other, like I said, poor nations. Now again the want, and the desire to have a wife and to have that fulfillment is a good one. But that doesn't mean you can go and kidnap a woman to fulfill that need. So a very similar thing here. You can't play God like this by creating little babies, and then killing off those that don't make it.
MCKINNEY: You know, we as adults, we don't have a right to children, they are a gift from God. And so when they come, we do our best, you know, to provide everything for them. But children, they do have rights. They have a right to a mom, and to a dad. Of course, sometimes situations don't allow that for to be possible. There are parents who sadly pass away in other horrible situations, but again, those are the exceptions and not the norm. Children at heart deserve a mother and a father. And because I know this can be a touchy subject because IVF, there are people probably out there watching themselves who have engaged in it or know people who are born through it.
I remember one time talking about it, and a girl who was with me said, “I was a test tube baby. Does that mean I shouldn't have been born?” And I thought, “no, heavens, heavens to Betsy, no. I wasn't saying that you don't deserve a right to life.” I'm pro-life till, you know, till the very extreme. However, what I was saying is in the same way, if a child is conceived in rape, it's not the child's fault, but the way and the situation it happened was wrong. But the child, of course, has the right to life. So a very similar thing here. The means of the conception is wrong, but the child is just as much a child of God as the rest of us. So I want to again make sure that no one thinks this is coming off the wrong way because I know it can be a very touchy situation for people out there.
But many Republicans now think that gay marriage is no big deal, but they'll say, “but the trans issue, that's the big deal,” and they'll even try and say, “well, I just don't want kids transitioning. But when you're adult, that's all fine and dandy.” In a few years, maybe not even if that, maybe in a few months, do you think we're going to see Republicans now conceding on this issue, hiring more MAGA drag queens if you will, and now saying that the left maybe is too crazy on pedophilia, but they draw the line in there with, you know, the trans issue. And then, of course, they just keep going further left.