From the May 13 edition of MSNBC’s Hardball with Chris Matthews:
JENNIFER FINNEY BOYLAN: I don't think this is about bathrooms at all. I think it's about equal rights. Transgender people don't want special rights. We want equal protection under the law, and mostly what we want is to be left alone. And if we can’t be left alone, we'd like to be treated with love. So you don’t want me in the men’s room. And you know how you create that perfect situation? Just stop. Stop coming up with these laws. Stop causing trouble where there is no trouble. There's been no reported signs of any incidents over the last several years. And by the way, a law very much like the one which President Obama put into action last night has been on the books in California for two and a half years now with no incidents whatsoever. So I say maybe these people are really not trying. Maybe the issue is really not bathrooms at all. Maybe because now gay men and lesbians can get married, and they’re no longer the whipping boys and whipping girls in this country, now maybe they’re trying to rile up people against transgender people. And it’s not right, and it’s not fair.
CHRIS MATTHEWS (HOST): Travis, tell Jenny what bathroom she should use.
TRAVIS WEBER: Well --
MATTHEWS: Which one should she use?
WEBER: Yeah, I mean I’m not sure, um --
MATTHEWS: Well just answer that question.
WEBER: I think people should be --
MATTHEWS: She said she would not be comfortable or not cause such problem if she walked into a men’s room. Should she walk into a men’s room?
WEBER: I think we can do things the way we’ve done them for decades, and people could use bathrooms according to biological sex with specific accommodation made for people who have a genuine issue. If we look at the North Carolina law, it made an accommodation. People are not happy with that, however. And now the Obama administration --
MATTHEWS: Let’s just talk about transgender people. What should a transgender person who identifies as a woman do? What bathroom should they go to? Just keep it simple.
WEBER: Yeah well there’s an issue of privacy concerns.
MATTHEWS: See no, you can’t answer the question, can you? What should they do?
WEBER: They can use the bathroom of their biological sex, except when there's a genuine issue and an accommodation can be made.
BOYLAN: Look, this is a solution in search of a problem. And what I would suggest that we do is what my mother, a Republican, evangelical Christian suggested we do, which is open your hearts. Travis, if you had a child who was transgender, and I'm glad that you recognize the existence of gender dysphoria as a real condition that many of us face. We don't deserve to be humiliated. We don’t deserve to be treated with anything other than love. And this is not going to open the door to boys in girls bathrooms. That is a hallucination which the right has come up with in order to scare people, and it's not necessary. Even better would be if we simply open our hearts and treat each other with kindness and with the respect and dignity that we all deserve as citizens of this country.
MATTHEWS: Which should Jenny do if she was visiting North Carolina right now? Should she go to the men's room? Should she? You're dodging the toughest question, which is what do you want people to behave like?
WEBER: It’s not a matter of what I want, it’s a matter of what the law permits.
MATTHEWS: Well what should she do?
WEBER: In North Carolina --
MATTHEWS: She should go to the men’s room?
WEBER: Actually a private business can do whatever they want regarding bathrooms. And if it’s in a certain government accommodation --
MATTHEWS: OK, at the airport. How about the airport?
WEBER: They can have, an accommodation can be made to protect the privacy of the student.
MATTHEWS: Can you answer the question? Should Jenny go to the men’s room or the ladies room?
WEBER: Well, she can use an accommodation bathroom that is a single use bathroom that would protect the privacy interest of the students on the other side. Now let me say this --
MATTHEWS: No, no, let her respond to that. Did that mean anything to you, Jenny?
BOYLAN: That’s gobbledygook. That means nothing. I am a woman. I have an F on my driver’s license. I have the anatomy of a woman, but because my birth certificate says M, I would have to go to the men’s room. And that makes me unsafe.
WEBER: I agree with her that everyone should be treated with love and respect. That's a human basic. That’s a human basic. And many people have different issues. They're not arguing disrespectful. People love people and have different views on human sexuality that’s motivating a lot of this discussion.
MATTHEWS: It just seems odd to me that you’d want Jenny to show up in men's room you go to. You think that would be appropriate? You think that would be appropriate? It’s a simple question, should Jenny go to your men’s room? Yes or no.
WEBER: We have to protect the privacy interests of people on both sides.
MATTHEWS: See, you’re dodging this question. It is a tricky question, but it’s an important one.
BOYLAN: He is dodging the question. It’s a simple question. I will be in the ladies room, thanks very much.