MICHAEL KNOWLES (HOST): The difference here is Mussolini was a pretty bad guy. He's not -- he wasn't the worst guy in the world. He wasn't Hitler, certainly. He wasn't Stalin, he wasn't Lenin. But he -- Mussolini was, let's say, at least a mixed bag leaning on the side of bad. Not -- he was a bad political leader. Franco was, broadly speaking, pretty good. Given the circumstances that he was in; you've got the communists threatening to take over the entire country and they're killing priests and raping nuns, Franco was pretty good. Because Franco wasn't a fascist. Franco wasn't a Nazi. Franco was a conservative, Catholic, kind of guy who held things together and liberalized over time too, as the circumstances permitted it. I don't know. I mean, even to -- you're saying it's crazy to compare the current party to Franco, but even to compare Franco to the other bad men of the twentieth century, I think, is a great exaggeration.