TUCKER CARLSON (HOST): So this indictment, so you're pushing 70, you're 100% military disabled, you spend a career in the Navy. This indictment paints you as the leader of a crack commando unit trying to stage a sort of D-Day invasion on the banks of the Potomac with, what they describe as heavy weapons. And then they go on to say, in fact they can prove you were within the Capitol. Respond to these allegations if you would. Can they prove you were there? Were you there?
THOMAS CALDWELL (GUEST): Well, Tucker, I did not go into the Capitol and they know it. And interestingly enough, in the new charges, look at this the long-awaited sedition charge paperwork. They've actually backed off on the idea that I went in. Why? Because all of these thousands and thousands of hours of film they have body worn cameras and stuff like that are exculpatory. That's one of the reasons why I think we haven't gotten them so far. But, they have backed off on the idea that I went in. One of the things that I learned in prison after they threw me into solitary confinement for a couple months is that when they don't know what to charge you with, they charge you with conspiracy. And now, sedition. I have to tell you I'm absolutely outraged. They don't have any proof, and I'm innocent. And we can prove my innocence. So all the stuff that they said before has all been false. All the stuff they say here is also false. And I'm just I'm absolutely outraged and angered. And I will tell you, and you know this is true, Tucker, I have consistently taken the high road about this. My wife and I are Christians, we understood that there was a rush to judgment. I got arrested because somebody referred to me by my military tank, Commander Tom. And that's all they needed to put guns in my wife's face and take me off our farm in chains. But everything that they've said about me and everything that they say today about me is untrue. And we can prove it.
CARLSON: So they claim that you planned to bring, quote, "heavy weapons" by boat across the Potomac river. Were you planning -- what kind of heavy weapons do you think that refers to? Were you planning to do that?
CALDWELL: I have no idea and, no, I was not, Tucker. Look, I was a Navy guy, okay. Now Navy guys do know about water but it's like aircraft carriers, you know, we're talking about blue water Navy here. So this other stuff I don't know anything about, didn't have any role in planning any of it. It's just more hooey.
CARLSON: Were those heavy weapons that they say you texted about, have they been located? What -- do you have any idea -- I mean that just sort of jumped out of the indictment.
CALDWELL: No, none.
CARLSON: Do you have heavy weapons? Do you have Howitzers or anything like that?
CALDWELL: No, sir, I don't. And I don't know anybody who does. And so I do not -- I have never seen anything in the limited discovery that they have given us to show that they have seized any kinds of weapons. And I can tell you, I never saw any weapons, nor did I talk to anybody who talked about bringing in heavy weapons and overthrowing the government, which is what sedition is all about. It's just plain nuts. And this kind of thing really should worry every single American citizen. I listened to your previous guest. And they are absolutely right. There's no innocence any more. If you are charged, they just figure that you're guilty. And the real worry here bow, is that for anybody that's watching our program, think about this: If you are perceived by people who may not even be elected in our country, to not think the right way or to say something in a private e-mail conversation that --
CALDWELL: -- they don't like, you could end up being a target, just as I'm a target.
CARLSON: So you're facing the rest of your life in prison, I think, on the basis of these charges. Apparently the indictment suggests that these were pulled off Signal which is supposed to be an encrypted and secure messaging app for your phone. Is that true? And if it is, how would the feds have access to your text messages from Signal? Do you have any idea?
CALDWELL: Well, I'll tell you, it's very interesting. What has happened is is the government has spoken long and hard about these management or leadership chats, various types of software and all these things that were going on. I appear in none of those leadership chats. I don't know what the heck they're talking about. But because I know someone who may have allegedly gone inside the Capitol and because someone referred to me by my former military rank, I was scooped up. And the problem is that in the government, when you make a mistake, there's really no need to say mea culpa. They just double down, they just double down. And this should be very worrisome. I'll share just a quick story with you, if you'll indulge me. And, you know, this whole thing has just crushed my wife and I --
CARLSON: I know.
CALDWELL: -- emotionally and financially. We have all the faith in the world in God. We believe that this is good versus evil. And we are Christians, I keep talking about that. But, I was in prison, in solitary confinement, but still people learn how to communicate. It was interesting because so many people who were career criminals who are locked away in solitary just like myself, knew who I was. And one of them told me this story and I'll make it tight. I've never told this story on television, radio, anything, here we go. This gentleman who, by his own admission has spent most of his adult life in prison system, told me, he said, "You know what?" He said, "I was born Black in the inner city and they had me in their cross hairs early on. But you, Caldwell, you're a gimpy, white country boy, a veteran who loves Jesus. You got no chance against these people when they get ready to take you down." Well, that's pretty scary and I've had a lot of time to think about that, but I do believe in God. I believe he has us in our -- in the palm of his hands. And we've had a tremendous outpouring from people like your viewership who have helped us with our legal fees. And this is going to go on for a long time. And we're gonna need a lot of help.
CARLSON: It's certainly -- I bet it will. So, one final question, just to be totally clear on this. And, you know, we should just state the obvious, which is just because the DOJ has alleged something doesn't mean it's true. I think our viewers understand that. But the indictment suggests they have proof, they have video proof that you were inside the Capitol and I just want to be clear, you're categorically denying that, you say you were not inside the Capitol, period.
CALDWELL: Absolutely, completely, categorically denying it. And you know what? I think they know it, too, but it doesn't seem to matter to them.