MARTHA MACCALLUM (HOST): Everyone looks at this Rose Garden ceremony and everybody is sitting right near each other.
Nobody -- there are few people in the audience who had some masks on, but there's an inside event, a reception room in the White House, and everybody is hugging and high-fiving, and now you've got nine people who were there who have it.
And, you know, Chris Christie said when you guys were doing debate prep nobody's wearing the mask. And we all know that feeling, you know? When you're in a place where you feel like you're among friends, you don't necessarily want to wear it. But I'm just wondering, do you think that the -- the message should change, not maybe to the extent that you're talking about where it's becomes, you know, maybe ridiculous, like driving by yourself in a car with one on, but do you think that this -- this whole experience for the president will change the way he looks at it a little bit?
RUDY GIULIANI: Sure. Things like this do change, who -- I think he indicated that, that he's been educated a lot. I think we have to wait and see exactly the conclusions that he's drawn from it, but I know he's drawn some conclusions from what -- what he's -- what he's gone through.
And there's a balance here to be struck, between wearing a mask and wearing a mask to the point of almost, you know, political theater, or -- or maybe even worse than that, fear, an irrational fear.
I mean, there's a lot of irrational fear in our society right now. And the president, by -- by fighting this, is kind of leading the way. I mean, he's a general that leads from the front. He's not asking people to take risks that he doesn't take.
If you -- if you stand -- if you stay back, if you're behind the curve in terms of bringing our society forward, you really can't be president.