Does MSNBC approve of Pat Buchanan's appearances on a "pro-White" radio show?

››› ››› JULIE MILLICAN, JEREMY HOLDEN, MATT GERTZ & MEREDITH ADAMS

MSNBC political analyst Pat Buchanan appeared on the June 29, 2008, and September 14, 2006, editions of The Political Cesspool Radio Show, a program whose "Statement of Principles" asserts that it "represent[s] a philosophy that is pro-White." Buchanan's June 29 interview was streamed "Live" on the self-described "White Nationalist" and "White Pride" website Stormfront.org.

As Media Matters for America has noted, Obama Nation author Jerome Corsi reportedly canceled an appearance on the August 17 edition of The Political Cesspool Radio Show -- a program whose "Statement of Principles" asserts that it "represent[s] a philosophy that is pro-White" -- after Media Matters for America, the Southern Poverty Law Center's Hatewatch blog, and several media outlets noted Corsi's reported plan to appear on the show. Corsi had appeared on the show's July 20 edition. But Corsi isn't the only conservative media figure to appear on Political Cesspool; MSNBC political analyst Pat Buchanan appeared on the program's June 29, 2008, and September 14, 2006, editions. Buchanan's June 29 interview was streamed "Live" on the self-described "White Nationalist" and "White Pride" website Stormfront.org.

In a statement posted on Political Cesspool co-host James Edwards' website following Buchanan's appearance on September 14, 2006, co-host Winston Smith wrote:

On Thursday night, September 14, James Edwards and [co-host] Jess Bonds interviewed Pat Buchanan in a show that attracted much fanfare. But what does it all mean?

First of all, Pat Buchanan is one of the giants of America First Constitutional Conservatism and his appearance on our show says a lot about The Political Cesspool. Don't ever let anyone tell you that this broadcast doesn't matter, my friends, because when the likes of Pat Buchanan agrees to be on your program, he does so only after his people have researched the program and decided it's in their interest to be noticed by that program's audience because of that audience's quantity and quality. So, not only does Pat Buchanan's appearance on The Political Cesspool speak well of this show, it also speaks well of this show's audience.

To put it in its simplest terms, Pat Buchanan thinks you good folks are worth his time. He wants you to hear what he's got to say.

A Winter 2006 article in the Southern Poverty Law Center's Intelligence Report noted Buchanan's September 14, 2006, appearance on The Political Cesspool and reported that the show has "featured an array of past and present Klansmen and neo-Nazis, a veritable 'Who's Who' of the radical right."

Notwithstanding Buchanan's appearances on a "pro-White" radio show and his own history of controversial statements on race, Buchanan appeared opposite Washington Post columnist Gene Robinson on the August 5 edition of MSNBC's Hardball and discussed with guest host Mike Barnicle the question: "Who did play the race card, [Sen. John] McCain or [Sen. Barack] Obama? Or was it both?"

During his appearance on the June 29 edition of The Political Cesspool, Buchanan disputed "the idea that [World War II] was a good war, this was a war where good -- pure good fought pure evil" and also said: "But as I say, had there been no war, there would have been no Holocaust, and I'm not sure there would have been a war if the British hadn't issued this insane war guarantee." Buchanan then had the following exchange with Edwards about Charles Lindbergh and the America First Committee:

EDWARDS: Well, you know, history is, Pat, kind of like a Sunday buffet. People seemingly take what they want and leave the rest on the table. And, of course, it's been lost to antiquity, the fact that the vast majority of Americans stood with Charles A. Lindbergh and the America First Committee in opposition to our entry into World War II, before the attack, of course, on Pearl Harbor.

BUCHANAN: Well, good for you. Good for you in bringing up Colonel Lindbergh's name, because his reputation has been blackened because of a single speech he gave and a couple of paragraphs in it, where he said that, you know, there are three forces that are moving for war, and one of them is, of course, the Roosevelt administration. The other is the British, which was clearly true. They had the man called Intrepid, William Stephenson, trying to find ways to get the Americans into war, putting up propaganda, frankly blackmailing senators and everything.

And then he said the Jewish community is beating the drums for war, but this is going to be a disaster for the Jewish community if we get into war. And of course, that was verboten to say, but frankly, no one has said he -- what he said was, you know, palpably untrue. And these folks -- and before December 7, 1941, the America First Committee offered -- they said, "Look, let's put up a resolution in Congress saying, 'We declare war on Germany,' and have it voted up or down, but don't sneak us by a back door" --

EDWARDS: Mm-hmm.

BUCHANAN: -- "into war."

Later in the interview, Edwards thanked Buchanan "for coming back on our program, for fighting for our people." According to The Political Cesspool's "Statement of Principles," the show "heartily endorse[s] and accept[s] as our own" the belief that "the United States is a European country and that Americans are part of the European people." Buchanan did not respond to Edwards' reference to Buchanan's "fighting for our people."

Following Buchanan's June 29 appearance on The Political Cesspool, the Anti-Defamation League issued a press release asserting that "Edwards regularly invites anti-Semites, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, Holocaust deniers and conspiracy theorists to voice their views on his show." The press release also quoted ADL National Director Abraham H. Foxman's statement: "While parading himself as a moderate, to sell his book Pat Buchanan has stooped into the cesspool of extremism." Responding to the release in a July 2 blog post, Edwards wrote: "For four years we have withstood attacks and refused to apologize for our beliefs. We know our Cause is righteous. When lesser men would have cowered, we have held our ground. This, along with an unblemished record of on-air professionalism and consistency has forged a fine reputation for The Political Cesspool Radio Program."

Audio of Buchanan's June 29 appearance on The Political Cesspool was posted to Buchanan's website on July 8 by the Webmaster, "Linda," who wrote: "Here's the radio show clip that gave the Anti-Defamation League [ADL] a reason to get all fired up against Pat - again. I'm sure the ADL will use this as a key issue in their next several fund raising letters."

According to a Google cache snapshot of Stormfront.org "as it appeared on Jun 29, 2008 23:50:45 GMT," text under the headline "Stormfront Broadcast Radio" stated: "Live NOW: Political Cesspool with James Edwards & Bill Rolen & Winston Smith -- Guests: Patrick J. Buchanan, promoting with new book; 'Churchill, Hitler, and The Unnecessary War.' " Media Matters has noted that Corsi's July 20 appearance was also streamed "Live" on Stormfront.org. Edwards has stated on his blog that The Political Cesspool is "in syndication" with Stormfront, which The Washington Post described as "a central meeting place for the white power movement" in a June 22 article about "an increase in racist and white supremacist activity" surrounding Obama.

The Google cache of Stormfront.org's website "as it appeared on Jun 29, 2008 23:50:45 GMT," taken on August 19 at 5:50 p.m. ET:

On June 6, the ADL stated: "Initially billed as 'The South's Foremost Conservative Populist Radio Program,' the Political Cesspool's Mission Statement now says that the show 'represent[s] a philosophy that is pro-White ... [and seeks] to grow the percentage of Whites in the world relative to other races.' " According to an article in the Fall 2007 issue of the Southern Poverty Law Center's Intelligence Report," 'The Political Cesspool' in the past two years has become the primary radio nexus of hate in America." Media Matters has documented numerous statements regarding race made by Edwards on his blog, including his June 6 post headlined "Does she hate Whitey?" in which Edwards wrote: "Michelle Obama, that is. Uh, yeah, I'm pretty sure she does. Just like her husband. Just like about 90% of blacks."

For his part, Buchanan has previously:

  • Asserted that "America has been the best country on earth for black folks. It was here that 600,000 black people, brought from Africa in slave ships, grew into a community of 40 million, were introduced to Christian salvation, and reached the greatest levels of freedom and prosperity blacks have ever known," adding, "We hear the grievances. Where is the gratitude?"
  • Cited gang wars "in South Central L.A." and "in the prisons" as evidence that tensions between African-Americans and Latinos would affect voting in the Democratic presidential primaries.
  • Predicted that immigration will result in the "complete balkanization of America."
  • Claimed that illegal immigration constitutes an "invasion of the United States of America."
  • Said that illegal immigration threatens to reduce America to "a polyglot boarding house for the world, a tangle of squabbling minorities."

From the August 5 edition of MSNBC's Hardball with Chris Matthews:

BARNICLE: Good evening. I'm Mike Barnicle, in for Chris Matthews. Welcome to Hardball. Leading off: Forget all those national poll numbers. Presidential elections are won state by state. And tonight, we've got the latest results from the NBC News political unit: what states are leaning to McCain, which ones are looking good for Barack Obama, and who's got the edge in those key battleground states. The best political map anywhere in just a few minutes.

Plus: Who did play the race card, McCain or Obama? Or was it both? Pat Buchanan and [Washington Post columnist] Gene Robinson join us in a debate. You won't want to miss it. And name that veep. He topped our "Power Rankings" last night as the most likely McCain running mate. Tonight, Mitt Romney joins us for a one-on-one interview.

From the June 29 edition of The Political Cesspool Radio Show:

EDWARDS: Excellent answer, very well put. And as with any Buchanan book, this one has received a great deal of fanfare, much critical acclaim, and a few inevitable attacks. What is it, Pat, about World War II that your detractors don't seem to understand?

BUCHANAN: I think they -- there is the idea, and it's come, frankly, from some-- and the book is dedicated to four of my uncles who were "Greatest Generation" Americans and fought in Europe, one of them who came back from Anzio with a Silver Star. I think it's the idea that this was a good war, this was a war where good -- pure good fought pure evil, which -- a war that had to be fought and was necessary, and there was no -- there are no doubts and qualms about it. But that is not true, as I write, and that's why you, in effect, are dispelling some of the great myths by which Americans live. When you say that the -- I mean, Winston Churchill blundered -- I mean, Chamberlain and Churchill blundered serially, again and again, to bring about a war with Germany. Hitler didn't want war with the West, he didn't want war with Poland, he didn't want a world war. He wasn't even prepared for a world war.

EDWARDS: Mm-hmm.

BUCHANAN: To say that he was a thug and a brutal dictator and a bully and someone who used threats of violence and force as tools of diplomacy is correct. To say that he did horrible things in wartime is correct. But as I say, had there been no war, there would have been no Holocaust, and I'm not sure there would have been a war if the British hadn't issued this insane war guarantee.

EDWARDS: Well, you know, history is, Pat, kind of like a Sunday buffet. People seemingly take what they want and leave the rest on the table. And, of course, it's been lost to antiquity, the fact that the vast majority of Americans stood with Charles A. Lindbergh and the America First Committee in opposition to our entry into World War II, before the attack, of course, on Pearl Harbor.

BUCHANAN: Well, good for you. Good for you in bringing up Colonel Lindbergh's name, because his reputation has been blackened because of a single speech he gave and a couple of paragraphs in it, where he said that, you know, there are three forces that are moving for war, and one of them is, of course, the Roosevelt administration. The other is the British, which was clearly true. They had the man called Intrepid, William Stephenson, trying to find ways to get the Americans into war, putting up propaganda, frankly blackmailing senators and everything.

And then he said the Jewish community is beating the drums for war, but this is going to be a disaster for the Jewish community if we get into war. And of course, that was verboten to say, but frankly, no one has said he -- what he said was, you know, palpably untrue. And these folks -- and before December 7, 1941, the America First Committee offered -- they said, "Look, let's put up a resolution in Congress saying, 'We declare war on Germany,' and have it voted up or down, but don't sneak us by a back door" --

EDWARDS: Mm-hmm.

BUCHANAN: -- "into war." And because their son-- their fathers and uncles had fought and bled and died in World War I, only to make the world safe for democracy, only to see the British Empire annex another million square miles.

EDWARDS: And we're certainly following in their footsteps with regards to the collapse of what was truly the greatest nation in the history of civilization, this -- these United States of America. But you mention propaganda. Had divine providence seen fit for Pearl Harbor to have never occurred, let's say the United States stays home and Germany proceeds to defeat Stalin, what would America have looked like in 2008, Pat? Would Hitler have come over here, liquidated Christianity, Holocausted our people? Or would, perhaps, the world have been a better place, had we abstained?

BUCHANAN: Well, you can't know -- I mean, by then, when you're talking about 1941, Hitler did not want war in the West. That's why he didn't demand the return of Alsace-Lorraine from France, where he did want the return of Danzig from Poland, or from the League of Nations. And he did not want war with Britain, never did. He wanted to see the British Empire preserved. He was a great admirer of it. He thought Britain was a natural ally of Germany because they had no conflicts.

And so I think, if the British hadn't given the war guarantee, I don't know that there would even have been a war with Poland. Because the German offer was not outrageous for returned political control of their city, Danzig, with the Poles having economic control. And I don't know if there would even have been a war with the Soviet Union, then, for the reason that Germany would not have had a border with the Soviet Union. They would have had to get permission from Romania or from Poland or -- and from Hungary even to invade the Soviet Union.

So, I don't know there would have been a world war. If, however, the United States -- Hitler had not declared war on the United States, I think he would have been stopped in Russia. The Russians had stopped him clearly by 1940. But it might have -- the outcome of that war would have been in doubt, because I think it was American Lend-Lease and all the equipment we gave to Stalin which enabled him to really sustain his war effort and mount that enormous offensive the Russians had coming into Europe.

EDWARDS: Right.

BUCHANAN: I do think if you had not gotten into the war by '43, Stalin would probably have been on the Rhine, not just the Elbe.

EDWARDS: Well, that's very interesting, and it could have been. But certainly a lot of American blood would have been spared, and I think that's what we all would have wanted.

[...]

EDWARDS: Mr. Buchanan, thank you so much for coming back on our program, for fighting for our people. And last question: What can your fans expect to see from Pat Buchanan for the next 20 to 30 years?

BUCHANAN: Well, I don't know how long we're all going to last, to be very honest. But I hope to write -- you know, I've got one book in mind. I'm not sure I'm going to do it. One book in mind, which is -- I think that -- and it would be a -- not a large book. But it's sort of the -- it's not death of the West, but it's sort of the coming world where, I think, issues of race and ethnicity and culture -- the wars of race, ethnicity, and culture are going to replace the old wars, if you will, of ideology and dynasty and empire.

And I see that coming, and it's not a pleasant sight. But Pat Moynihan sort of saw it coming, so did Dr. Schlesinger. And I've read a number of columns on this. And you see the divisions in our society, increasingly along the lines of race and ethnicity. And I don't think it's a pleasant prospect that our kids and grandkids confront. And I'm going to try to address it and see if there's any ways it can be resolved, sort of -- short of some sort of balkanization of America.

Posted In
Diversity & Discrimination, Race & Ethnicity
Network/Outlet
MSNBC
Person
Pat Buchanan, James Edwards
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