Beck, Limbaugh fomenting fear about H1N1 vaccine

››› ››› ADAM SHAH, JOCELYN FONG & ZACHARY PLEAT

In recent days, both Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh have suggested that the H1N1 flu vaccine may be unsafe and questioned the Obama administration's recommendation that Americans get vaccinated, with Limbaugh asserting that "[y]ou'll be healthier" if you don't believe what the government says and Beck suggesting that the vaccine may be "deadly." However, health experts have repeatedly stated that the vaccine is a safe and necessary tool to combat the virus, and that, in CDC chief Thomas Frieden's words, "This flu vaccine is made as flu vaccine is made each year, by the same companies, in the same production facilities, with the same procedures, with the same safety safeguards" and "[t]hat enables us to have a high degree of confidence in the safety of the vaccine."

Beck, Limbaugh raise questions about vaccine that experts say is safe and necessary

Beck: Vaccine may turn out to be "deadly." On the September 30 edition of his radio show, Beck said: "I am not willing to go on the air with anything because one thing that you get wrong on this and it -- it can lead to a lot of death one way or another, you know? If you say, 'Don't take the swine flu vaccination,' and then it turns out that the swine flu this particular wave is virulent and the vaccination would have helped, well then, you know, what role did I play in that? The opposite is true; I say, 'Everybody take the vaccination,' and that turns out to be deadly, what role did I play in that? I'm just not willing to do that." [The Glenn Beck Program, 9/30/09]

Beck: "I'd do the exact opposite of what the Homeland Security says." During the same show, Beck said: "If somebody had the swine flu right now, I would have them cough on me. I'd do the exact opposite of what the Homeland Security says." When his producer responded, "But this is what I think. You're coming from such a skeptic viewpoint there. You're saying, you'd do the exact opposite of what Homeland Security tells you to do," Beck replied, "Only because I believe in -- in -- you know, I think this thing is going to mutate. It hasn't mutated yet. So I'd rather have it now, just like in 1916. Those who got the flu in 1916 were the ones that survived 1918. So I'd rather have it now. I mean, here's my vaccination. Hey, everybody, it's a swine flu chicken pox party. Seriously." [The Glenn Beck Program, 9/30/09]

Beck: "You don't know if this is gonna cause neurological damage like it did in the 1970s." Beck also said on the radio: "Are you taking the shot based on what you know now, are you taking the shot, and are you giving that shot to your kids? You don't know if this is gonna cause neurological damage like it did in the 1970s. You don't know if it's going to make things worse or if it's going to make things better. You just have to make the decision today." [The Glenn Beck Program, 9/30/09]

Limbaugh: "You'll be healthier" if you don't listen to the government. Limbaugh stated on his nationally syndicated radio program, "I'm not seeing these mass deaths from the swine flu. ... All I see is a bunch of typical government panic and hype." He added, "Who put the notion that you gotta have this shot, or this nasal spray -- whatever the hell the vaccine is -- whoever the hell put in your head the notion that you gotta do it? Government did. The Obama government, to be specific. It is one of my fervent objectives and goals ... to convince as many people as possible that the damn government is not God, and nobody in it even comes close to being as competent as you are to run your life. And yet, 'Oh my God, the government report says ...' The next time you hear 'The government says...' don't believe it. You'll be healthier, trust me." [The Rush Limbaugh Show, 10/7/09]

Limbaugh: "Screw you, Ms. Sebelius! I am not going to take it, precisely because you're now telling me I must." Limbaugh stated in response to Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius' call for widespread use of the vaccination, "Screw you, Ms. Sebelius! I am not going to take it, precisely because you're now telling me I must. It's not your role, it's not your responsibility, and you do not have that power. I don't want to take your vaccine. I don't get flu shots." Limbaugh later added, "I'm just like -- I'm a contrarian, I'm a non-conformist -- you have some idiot government official demanding, telling me I must take this vaccine. I'll never take it." [The Rush Limbaugh Show, 10/7/09]

Beck cultivating fears about forced vaccinations

Beck suggests government will say "everybody" has to take the flu shot, may "line up" people to get mandatory flu shot. After Beck's radio producer, known on-air as Stu, said of the H1N1 vaccine, "if we drew the line at, hey we've never done this to a human body before, we wouldn't have a lot of our current cures," Beck responded, "Yeah, yeah, yeah. But we've never said, 'Hey, we're going to try something out, and you have to do it. Everybody.' " Beck later said: "So now here's the question. Just based on what you know, would you line up now? Because the government -- let's say the government came in and said, 'OK, everybody, you've gotta line up and everybody has to have their shot. Otherwise, you ain't going anywhere.' " [The Glenn Beck Program, 9/30/09]

Beck: "U.S. out of my bloodstream." Beck also said: "But that's what happened last time, real neurological damage. Now we have -- we've come quantum leaps ahead from the 1970s medically, but gosh, I just don't -- I mean, you know, you don't get any more personal. I mean, U.S. out of my uterus. How about the U.S. out of my bloodstream? You know?" [The Glenn Beck Program, 9/30/09]

Beck: "If government says it's OK," why are health care workers protesting mandated vaccinations? Beck stated on his Fox News program, "The government has told us -- and this is something that I would have never questioned two years ago -- the government will tell you now that you need to have the swine flu vaccination. Great. OK. Well, doctors first. In New York, they have made it mandatory for health care workers, because they can't be sick. They got to be in giving you a shot." He continued, "Well, in Albany today, this is happening. Health care workers are protesting being forced into getting the shot. Well, why? If the government says it's OK, why would that happen? Who do we believe? The doctors and the nurses who say, 'Wait, you ain't giving it to me,' or the government that says everybody has to have it?" [Glenn Beck, 9/29/09]

Beck: Massachusetts Senate bill "could be paving the way for forced vaccinations." Beck stated, "Now, we turn to Massachusetts. There is a bill that passed the Senate unanimously that could be paving the way for forced vaccinations due to the H1N1 pandemic emergency. The Senate's Pandemic Response Bill 2028 would allow the public health commissioner in a public health emergency to close or evacuate buildings, enter your house for an investigation without a warrant and quarantine you in your house." He added, "Off the top of my head, I'm pretty sure this violates the Fourth Amendment, the Fifth Amendment, the 13th, 14th, and 15th Amendment. I've got five of them, and that's just right off the top of my head." [Glenn Beck, 8/31/09]

Beck: People rejecting vaccines because they don't trust the government. Beck stated on his radio show that people are refusing the vaccination because "people just feel in their gut, 'I don't trust these people any more.' But when you -- when you say, 'I don't trust these people to the point of, you know, I think they're weasels. I think they're --' Now you're talking about, 'I don't trust them to not put something very, very bad and inject people with.' That's in a different category. That's -- that's -- that's into the realm of 'c'mon, really?' " He also stated that the attitude toward vaccinations "is a stock market, really, for how much we trust the government," noting that "there's nothing that's come out about the swine flu vaccinations that necessarily is bad, any credible thing that has come out that is bad." Beck later stated that "they think our government could be so incompetent that they don't have any clue as to what they're doing." [The Glenn Beck Program, 9/29/09]

Beck promoting October 8 special on vaccine

Beck: Shots "supposedly are safe ... we are gathering the best information available ... decide for yourself." In a promo for his October 8 special on the vaccine, Beck stated, "Does the H1N1 flu scare the heck out of you as much as it does me? The shots supposedly are safe for our kids, grandparents, and ourselves. We are gathering the best information available to present it to you and then decide for yourself." [Happening Now, 10/7/09]

Beck: "You need to decide as a dad and a mom." Teasing his October 8 show, Beck stated, "You don't want to miss Thursday's show. The vaccine -- do you get it or not? Everything you should know on both sides of the argument on the H1N1 vaccine. I'm going to decide as a dad. You need to decide as a dad and a mom as well. Everything you need to know. I believe it's on Thursday, right? Don't miss it." [Glenn Beck, 10/6/09]

Beck: "This is for every American to ask themselves: Am I going to give this injection to my children?" Beck said, "On Thursday, I want to you join me for a special show, an hour- long special on the swine flu. I'm not going to give you my opinion on the swine flu. I don't think anybody but your doctor should give their opinion on the swine flu. This is for every American to ask themselves: Am I going to give this injection to my children?" He added, "We're going to have a half-hour of those who say absolutely not -- medical doctors. And then the second half is, are you crazy? You must. You decide. That will be a special hour Thursday. Honest questions I don't think are going to be asked or answered anyplace else." [Glenn Beck, 10/5/09]

Health experts say H1N1 vaccine is safe and important

CDC chief: "[W]e have cut no corners" in production of H1N1 vaccine. In an October 6 press conference, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention chief Thomas Frieden reportedly said, "With the production of this strain [of vaccine], we have cut no corners. ... This flu vaccine is made as flu vaccine is made each year, by the same companies, in the same production facilities, with the same procedures, with the same safety safeguards." Frieden added, "We have had hundreds of millions of people vaccinated against flu with flu vaccine made in this way. That enables us to have a high degree of confidence in the safety of the vaccine." [HealthDay, 10/6/09]

NIH vaccine clinical trial revealed no significant side effects. The Washington Post reported: "In addition to studies conducted by the vaccine manufacturers, the National Institutes of Health sponsored several clinical trials of the vaccine involving more than 4,600 people, including children and pregnant women. Although the tests were designed primarily to determine the vaccine's effectiveness and the right dose, no side effects were detected other than soreness and redness where the shot was given, a common side effect of the seasonal flu vaccines." [The Washington Post, 10/4/09]

WHO recommends everyone "who has a chance to get vaccinated does get vaccinated." Reuters reported that "The World Health Organization (WHO) restated its confidence in the H1N1 flu vaccine on Tuesday, calling it the most important tool against the pandemic. Mild adverse side effects such as muscle cramps or headache are to be expected in some cases, but everyone who has access to the vaccine should be inoculated, it said." Reuters further quoted WHO spokesman Gregory Hartl's statement that "[i]t is important to remember that the vaccines, which have already been approved, have been used for years and years and years in their seasonal vaccine formulation and have been shown to be among the safest vaccines that exist" and that "[w]e would hope that everyone who has a chance to get vaccinated does get vaccinated." [Reuters, 10/6/09]

Andrew Pekosz of John Hopkins: "All the data ... indicate it is just as safe" as seasonal flu shot. Pekosz, associate professor of molecular microbiology and immunology at Johns Hopkins University's Bloomberg School of Public Health, told The Washington Post that "[a]ll the data from the ongoing clinical trials of the 2009 H1N1 vaccine indicate it is just as safe as the regular seasonal flu. This was expected, since the 2009 H1N1 vaccine is made in exactly the same way as the seasonal flu vaccine." [The Washington Post, 9/29/09]

HHS secretary: "This is definitely is a safe vaccine for people to get." Kathleen Sebelius stated of the H1N1 vaccine, "[T]he adverse effects are minimal. ...We know it's safe and secure. ... This is definitely is a safe vaccine for people to get," according to the Associated Press. [AP, 10/7/09]

John Bartlett: Vaccine is "1,000 times safer than getting the flu." USA Today quoted Bartlett, the director of the Center for Civilian Biodefense Strategies at the Johns Hopkins School of Public Health, stating that the vaccine is "1,000 times safer than getting the flu." [USA Today, 10/1/09]

600 deaths, 9,000 hospitalizations in U.S. to date. According to HHS, which declared a public health emergency in response to the virus, "In the United States to date, more than 9,000 hospitalizations and nearly 600 deaths associated with 2009 H1N1 (Swine) flu viruses have been reported to CDC," and "The United States continues to report the largest number of H1N1 (Swine) flu cases of any country worldwide." [Pandemicflu.gov, Accessed 10/7/09]

Transcripts

From the October 7 edition of Fox News' Happening Now:

BECK: Does the H1N1 flu scare the heck out of you as much as it does me? The shots supposedly are safe for our kids, grandparents, and ourselves. We are gathering the best information available to present it to you and then decide for yourself.

From the October 6 edition of Fox News' Glenn Beck:

BECK: You don't want to miss Thursday's show. The vaccine -- do you get it or not? Everything you should know on both sides of the argument on the H1N1 vaccine. I'm going to decide as a dad. You need to decide as a dad and a mom as well. Everything you need to know. I believe it's on Thursday, right? Don't miss it.

From the October 5 edition of Fox News' Glenn Beck:

BECK: On Thursday, I want to you join me for a special show, an hour-long special on the swine flu. I'm not going to give you my opinion on the swine flu. I don't think anybody but your doctor should give their opinion on the swine flu. This is for every American to ask themselves: Am I going to give this injection to my children?

We're going to have a half hour of those who say absolutely not -- medical doctors. And then the second half is, are you crazy? You must. You decide. That will be a special hour Thursday. Honest questions I don't think are going to be asked or answered anyplace else.

From the September 29 edition of Fox News' Glenn Beck:

BECK: Do you feel like I do? I think you do. We would all absolutely learn to do with less, learn to do with nothing, quite frankly -- sew our own clothes, you know, never get any new clothes, just can our own food, work out in the yard, take a bus to work if we needed to, just to have our kids to have the opportunity at the freedom to succeed and fail that this country has always offered its citizens.

But now, I would swear watching and reading the news that those weren't the prevailing ideas in America, and we're getting now to a place that we can't even believe our eyes or our ears if we're watching certain stations or reading certain pieces of the news. Let me give you a few examples here.

The government has told us -- and this is something that I would have never questioned two years ago -- the government will tell you now that you need to have the swine flu vaccination. Great. OK. Well, doctors first. In New York, they have made it mandatory for health care workers, because they can't be sick. They got to be in giving you a shot.

Well, in Albany today, this is happening. Health care workers are protesting being forced into getting the shot. Well, why? If the government says it's OK, why would that happen? Who do we believe? The doctors and the nurses who say, "Wait, you ain't giving it to me," or the government that says everybody has to have it?

From the August 31 edition of Fox News' Glenn Beck:

BECK: Now, we turn to Massachusetts. There is a bill that passed the Senate unanimously that could be paving the way for forced vaccinations due to the H1N1 pandemic emergency. The Senate's Pandemic Response Bill 2028 would allow the public health commissioner in a public health emergency to close or evacuate buildings, enter your house for an investigation without a warrant and quarantine you in your house.

The measure would also require a registry for volunteers that would be activated in an emergency and establish fines of up to $1,000 for anybody who is not complying with the local public health orders.

Off the top of my head, I'm pretty sure this violates the Fourth Amendment, the Fifth Amendment, the 13th, 14th, and 15th Amendment. I've got five of them, and that's just right off the top of my head.

From the October 7 edition of Premiere Radio Networks' The Rush Limbaugh Show:

LIMBAUGH: And now you got Kathleen Sebelius saying you must take the pig flu vaccine. You must take it. Screw you, Ms. Sebelius! I am not going to take it, precisely because you're now telling me I must. It's not your role, it's not your responsibility, and you do not have that power. I don't want to take your vaccine. I don't get flu shots.

[...]

LIMBAUGH: We are going to have all kinds of mess here with Sebelius saying you must take the pig flu vaccine. No, we don't. How are they gonna make me take it, Snerdley? Wait until they get control of my health care? That's not gonna happen 'til 2013. Sebelius is saying today you gotta take it. How are they gonna make me take it if I refuse to take it? What is this, "you must take it"? Who the hell do these people think they are? "You must take it"? You know, I'm just like -- I'm a contrarian, I'm a non-conformist -- you have some idiot government official demanding, telling me I must take this vaccine. I'll never take it.

[...]

LIMBAUGH: I'm not seeing these mass deaths from the swine flu -- I'm sorry, I really don't want to insult the pork business -- from the H1N1 virus. All I see is a bunch of typical government panic and hype. Remember the bird flu. Remember the monkey flu. Remember the pig flu of four years ago. Every year, there is some disease, some disaster, that's gonna wipe us all out, and the life expectancy keeps going up. I've never had a flu shot in my life anyway.

Approaching the threshold of what? What threshold am I approaching? The age threshold? Oh, is that right? The age threshold -- then why are they closing schools in panic? Why are they -- this one hits the young harder, huh? That's right. Another reason why -- then why are you even telling me about the age threshold? You know, I really can't relate. Even some of my own staff here are now warning me against my obstinance here.

Let me ask you a question. Who put the notion that you gotta have this shot, or this nasal spray -- whatever the hell the vaccine is -- whoever the hell put in your head the notion that you gotta do it? Government did. The Obama government, to be specific. It is one of my fervent objectives and goals that before I do move to New Zealand, start spending everything I have before they take it away from me, is to convince as many people as possible that the damn government is not God, and nobody in it even comes close to being as competent as you are to run your life. And yet, "Oh my God, the government report says ..." The next time you hear "The government says..." don't believe it. You'll be healthier, trust me.

From the September 29 edition of Premiere Radio Networks' The Glenn Beck Program:

BECK: As we told you last week, they are pushing daycare. They are pushing daycare. That way, they can control the money that goes into daycare, which means they can control the environment, and they can indoctrinate. This is -- this is -- you know, I said a while back at Christmas, you're not even -- now, I said this a year ago Christmas -- you're not even going to recognize this country. You won't even recognize it. Well, put yourself back into the place that you were last Christmas when I said that. Do you think you would -- if I told you last Christmas that these things would happen by September that already are going on, would you say that I was a kook? Of course you would. Of course you would. There's even more coming. By Christmas, you will not recognize it.

Think of what we have done to our country in a year. We have some -- we have some things happening in our country now that you have to decide. For instance, I don't know if you saw this show with the moms last Friday. Or we replayed it last night because President Obama interrupted for a speech at the G-20 on Friday, so they missed most of the program, so we played it again last night. Did you see the moms when they said, "I'm not going to vaccinate my kid for the swine flu? Not gonna do it."

PAT GRAY (contributing editor): How many?

BECK: None of them.

GRAY: How many of them? None of them?

BECK: Fifty, 55 of them. None of them.

GRAY: Wow.

BECK: Not one.

GRAY: And if they're forced, they said they wouldn't?

BECK: They said no way. When I said "what happens if the government says you have to do it?" It was just [unintelligible]. I mean, the body language of one of the mothers when I said, "How about -- what -- what happens -- are you going to vaccinate your child if the federal government says you have to have the flu vaccine for your child, what are you going to do?" One mother, she folded her arms and almost rolled up into a ball shaking her head no. I mean, her body language alone spoke volumes. Now, this is for something that everybody has to make their own decision on. But this should show -- do you remember when I said that the sales of guns is a stock market, really, for how much we trust the government? It's the same thing with the vaccinations. A year ago, 18 months ago, swine flu come around vaccinations, people would say "Oh yeah, I gotta get my kid vaccinated" or whatever. There -- there's -- there's nothing that's come out about the swine flu vaccinations that necessarily is bad, any credible thing that has come out that is bad. It hasn't been reported in a credible way. You disagree?

GRAY: In a -- in a credible way? No.

BECK: In a credible way.

GRAY: Nothing that we've verified --

BECK: Correct.

GRAY: -- or documented.

BECK: Nothing that we've documented. Nothing that we've -- but people now are already starting to say, "I don't trust this government enough. There's no way." That's amazing.

STEVE "STU" BURGUIERE (executive producer): Yeah, it shows general distrust of the government.

BECK: Not - not -- not general distrust. It shows generally there is a deep distrust.

BURGUIERE: Yeah. General, deep distrust and based on, you know -- I think it's interesting because it's not necessarily something that's coming from even like, you know --

BECK: No.

BURGUIERE: It's coming from a general place, where it's just like, this is not something that you normally would distrust from the government.

BECK: No.

BURGUIERE: I mean, you know, they tell you --

GRAY: No, you always get vaccines.

BURGUIERE: This is the sort of thing that I think government should actually do.

BECK: Yeah.

BURGUIERE: It's one of the few things that they should actually do --

BECK: I've talked to --

BURGUIERE: -- is talk about infectious disease.

BECK: I've talked to several doctors and several doctors have said, "Glenn, I distrust the government as much as you do. I think they're acting in a responsible way, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So there's nothing -- there's nothing that has happened here except people just feel in their gut, "I don't trust these people any more." But when you -- when you say, "I don't trust these people to the point of, you know, I think they're weasels. I think they're --" Now you're talking about, "I don't trust them to not put something very, very bad and inject people with." That's in a different category. That's -- that's -- that's into the realm of, "c'mon, really?"

BURGUIERE: And it's interesting, because I think that the hesitancy of some of these people is for sort of a -- based sort of general incompetence of, like, you would like think these people would try to react to a crisis and do so poorly and without regard to our personal safety. But I think there's another side of it, of just people just don't trust the -- they don't want anything to do with it. They don't want anything to do with being told to do anything. And, you know, I think that that's --

BECK: I think they want to say -- I think what's happening is they think our government could be so incompetent that they don't have any clue as to what they're doing.

GRAY: Might not even be nefarious.

BECK: Yeah.

GRAY: It's just that they're incompetent.

BECK: Right. But I wonder what the -- what the balance is of between that and it's nefarious. I mean, what is what do you think the balance is of those who say they're not gonna get the vaccine from incompetence to nefarious. What do you think it is, Stu?

BURGUIERE: I don't --

BECK: I mean, I think it's --

GRAY: Fifty-fifty, maybe?

BECK: Yeah. I think it might even lean -- it might even lean nefarious.

BURGUIERE: But nefarious, though, what is the case for that? I mean, the case is that --

BECK: No, nothing. That's the point.

BURGUIERE: Yeah.

BECK: Nothing.

BURGUIERE: Yeah.

BECK: Nothing.

BURGUIERE: And I don't think that's healthy.

BECK: No, it's -- no, it's not.

BURGUIERE: How do you distrust the government so much.

BECK: You know what? I have -- we're going to get to this in the next few days.

From the September 30 edition of The Glenn Beck Program:

BECK: You know, I want to -- I want to take a poll today. But I want to be very careful and, you know, we should have this discussion. I want to be very, very careful because I'm still doing my research on the swine flu and the vaccinations, and I have some things to share with you in the coming days that will boggle your mind, quite honestly, and boggle your mind that nobody in the mainstream media is -- is on this. But -- I mean, Stu, without -- hang on just a second. Without -- did you hear what I just said? Yeah, don't -- no, no, no, no. You know what I'm --

BURGUIERE: Oh, OK, you're saying -- gotcha.

BECK: I'm saying it off the air because I'm not ready to release this information.

BURGUIERE: The most cryptic radio program in history.

BECK: I'm sorry.

BURGUIERE: No, that's OK.

BECK: But I'm becoming more and more paranoid because --

BURGUIERE: You're kidding.

BECK: Yeah. Because I see how things work now.

[...]

BECK: But so far, I have not seen this government do anything other than -- well, other than what we're going to release next week. That's pretty spooky. But so far, I haven't seen this government do anything that is irrational. I think they're preparing exactly the right way. They're doing the right things so far, what I have seen. I think that they are moving in the right direction for a pandemic, which I believe is a possibility. I believed it during the George Bush days when everyone said, "Oh, he's only using that for fear." I believed it then. I believe it now.

BURGUIERE: Well, when you have stuff like the prairie dog fury around the corner, you have to make sure that --

BECK: You're not helpful. So -- so now, I look at what people are saying, and I would love to do a poll on the phones and get your reaction to, "Will you take the swine flu vaccination?" But I'm quite honestly nervous about doing it because I don't want a bunch of disinformation on the air. Because the swine flu is one of these things that we have to have the facts. The reason you haven't heard me talk about the swine flu at all is because I am not willing to go on the air with anything because one thing that you get wrong on this and it -- it can lead to a lot of death one way or another, you know? If you say, "Don't take the swine flu vaccination," and then it turns out that the swine flu this particular wave is virulent and the vaccination would have helped, well then, you know, what role did I play in that? The opposite is true; I say, "Everybody take the vaccination," and that turns out to be deadly, what role did I play in that? I'm just not willing to do that. This, I think, is a personal choice for your family and for your children. But I was amazed at what the mothers said on the swine flu last Friday when we had them on television. We had 50, 60 moms on. Not one of them said that they were going to have their kids take the swine flu shots. Not one.

BURGUIERE: Well, this is, I think, you know, it's one of those things that it -- this is why it's important to not be a corrupt government. Because --

BECK: Yes. Yes.

BURGUIERE: This may or may not be bad. We don't know. I mean, obviously, in the '70s, there was cases of the vaccine being very dangerous. We don't know what this one is yet. But the government doesn't trust you because of a long-term impression that you've driven into their heads that a) you're incompetent and b) you're corrupt.

BECK: So here's the thing. I -- I think the swine flu -- remember when we said that gun sales were the stock market on the government's stock? You know, as gun sales and bullets continue to fly off the shelf, it just means that we don't trust our government. I think another, you know, trade on that stock market of trust, if you will, is the swine flu. Here you have -- yesterday, there were these protesters in Albany. They were health care workers. Now the government is telling us that doctors have said, "Yup, the swine flu is great, and so we're going to require all of our health care workers to take it first, because they can't get sick." You had health care workers, not citizens, health care workers protesting yesterday at the -- at the state capitol saying, "I don't think so, Jack. You're not forcing -- you're not forcing me to take it."

BURGUIERE: Yeah. And that protest seemed to me to be more about the fact that "you can't tell me to do it" rather than "I don't want to take it." It's people saying, "Look, I -- it might be good, it might be bad, but you're not telling me I have to take it." I mean, that's them standing up for -- against the government in another way.

BECK: I just don't think the government has the right to inject you with anything by force. It just bothers me. Especially this one. You know -- well, I don't want to get into it yet. I mean, this is -- they're doing stuff to the -- the body that we've never done before with these vaccinations.

GRAY: Yes. Yeah, they kind of prepare your body for the --

BECK: They build a little highway in there.

BURGUIERE: And that could be good. I mean, it might be.

BECK: I know, and I've talked to some of the best experts, and they say it is. They say it is.

BURGUIERE: Might be, because if we drew the line at, hey we've never done this to a human body before, we wouldn't have a lot of our current cures.

BECK: Yeah, yeah, yeah. But we've never said, "Hey, we're going to try something out, and you have to do it. Everybody."

BURGUIERE: And I think that's --

BECK: Yeah.

BURGUIERE: -- what the real resistance is to this.

BECK: Yeah.

BURGUIERE: They don't -- people don't want to be forced to do something that they feel might be dangerous.

BECK: Right.

BURGUIERE: And that's a rational belief.

GRAY: And apparently, isn't there some worry, there's some concern about neurological damage or whatever and this --

BECK: Yeah, but --

GRAY: The -- the preparation shot supposedly helps that.

BECK: Yeah. But that's what happened last time, real neurological damage. Now, we have -- we've come quantum leaps ahead from the 1970s medically, but gosh, I just don't -- I mean, you know, you don't get any more personal. I mean, U.S. out of my uterus. How about the U.S. out of my bloodstream? You know?

GRAY: Yeah.

[...]

BECK: I do not want -- don't tell me things that you have heard in the news, et cetera, et cetera. You can -- you can tweet those things to me and we'll check them out. I don't want to spread disinformation on the swine flu, because I think we are dealing with a possible emergency that can change the country, can literally change the country. And this one is so important that I just don't want hearsay on the air. So, I'm only interested in hearing you -- you can call about other things, but I may ask you during the broadcast, you know, would you give your kids the shot. That's all I'm really interested in at this point. Where is this audience on the government forcing you to take a vaccination? Will you do it? Or will you say -- if they come to your house, do you know yet, Pat?

GRAY: Do I know what?

BECK: Have you made your decision yet?

GRAY: Yeah. Oh yeah.

BURGUIERE: Do you know enough about them? Because I don't know enough about the swine flu to make that decision yet. In fact, I feel like it's -- it's safe, and again, like I -- I'm generally a guy who's gonna trust doctors and I -- I'm not necessarily a medical skeptic. You know what I mean, like, the bottom line is, if I'm scared enough about the swine flu, I'm probably taking that thing.

BECK: I have made my decision, but I haven't made my decision with my wife yet, so in my head, I'm there, but I have to talk to my wife and we have to read carefully and pray on it together carefully before I'm ready to say I'm locked in.

BURGUIERE: Because if you've got --

BECK: But I'm on the road.

BURGUIERE: If you've got 20 million people in this country with the swine flu, you know, and you're -- you're like the people that are not getting it that have this vaccination. You know, I gotta -- you gotta -- you're gonna have a real tough sell.

BECK: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, wait, wait, wait, wait. We're not asking you if everyone has the vaccination and then people who aren't getting it, you know, are getting sick, and the people who had the vaccine -- then it's an easy decision.

BURGUIERE: Oh, is it though?

BECK: Oh, it absolutely -- if every -- Pat, if everybody was getting the vaccination, disregard what we have coming next week.

GRAY: It's hard to do.

BECK: Yeah. I know. If everyone was getting the vaccination, and they were fine, and those who didn't got sick, it would be an easy --

GRAY: Oh yeah, then it's a no-brainer.

BECK: Then it's a no-brainer. Of course I give it to my kids. Of course I give it to my kids.

BURGUIERE: Well, I guess we're just not to the point where we're ready to release the other information.

BECK: No.

BURGUIERE: So, I mean this is obviously -- because I think it's more than just -- just, you know, this -- it's the -- I think it combines with the sort of government distrust inside of this -- whether it's medically necessary or medically dangerous.

BECK: So now here's the question. Just based on what you know, would you line up now? Because the government -- let's say the government came in and said, "OK, everybody, you've gotta line up and everybody has to have their shot. Otherwise, you ain't going anywhere." Are you taking the shot -- based on what you know now, are you taking the shot, and are you giving that shot to your kids? You don't know if this is gonna cause neurological damage like it did in the 1970s. You don't know if it's going to make things worse or if it's going to make things better. You just have to make the decision today. Are you taking the shot, yes or no?

BURGUIERE: Because I --

BECK: No, no, no, that's a yes-or-no question.

BURGUIERE: Just to give -- I would say no.

BECK: You wouldn't do it.

BURGUIERE: No. But the reason -- I wanted to explain the reason. I know that the flu will come this year, and it will kill tens of thousands of people, and I never get a flu shot. The only time I would actually do something like this, and it's probably out of laziness, but it's just -- I never will go get a vaccination unless I would be really scared about it. So if I was actually petrified into doing it, I might do it. I probably would do it, if I thought there was actual danger, and there is a strong enough --

BECK: If somebody had --

BURGUIERE: -- case made, I'd probably do it.

BECK: If somebody had the swine flu right now, I would have them cough on me. I'd do the exact opposite of what the Homeland Security says. You know --

BURGUIERE: But this is what I think. You're coming from such a skeptic viewpoint there. You're saying, you'd do the exact opposite of what Homeland Security tells you to do.

BECK: Only because I believe in -- in -- you know, I think this thing is going to mutate. It hasn't mutated yet. So I'd rather have it now, just like in 1916. Those who got the flu in 1916 were the ones that survived 1918. So I'd rather have it now. I mean, here's my vaccination. Hey, everybody, it's a swine flu chicken pox party. Seriously.

BURGUIERE: I just think -- regardless of --

BECK: Wouldn't you?

BURGUIERE: But there's so many variables, though. You're getting a disease, whether you -- even if it comes and it's horrible, you might not get it, but there's so many variables between now and then, I don't know. I'm not willing to bet --

BECK: I'm getting the chicken pox.

BURGUIERE: -- on the mutation of a disease in advance.

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